Hunting and Fitness After 40

Welcome to the Hunt for Success podcast. Today we have Ken Wall, who is a 30-year fitness industry veteran, coach and author. He grew up hunting and fishing and calls himself a country boy at heart. He wrote a few books, which is really interesting to me. I’ve never written a book. I’ve had several ideas and thought processes, so maybe that’s something we can get into, how you sit down long enough to do that. Anyway, welcome to the show, Ken.

Hey, man, appreciate you having me. This is always fun.

Now you’re kind of focused in on 40 and older, men and women, helping them get their fitness back. That really applies to me. I was a lot more fit 10 years ago, and building business and raising a family kind of got in the way of that. I’m sure that’s a story you hear a lot. Tell me how you got into the business and what you’ve been doing.

How I got into the business is I was a marginally decent athlete who every time I got slightly better than that, I got hurt. I’ll date myself here, but this is back in the late ’80s and early ’90s, and we didn’t know anything about injury prevention. It was all bigger, faster, stronger. So I ended up going to school for exercise and sports science, got a job as a trainer right out of school, and I blinked and 30 years went by. And the over 40 stuff, obviously there’s been a big shift in the industry toward that, but I am that. I’m going to be 53, so I can relate to what it’s like to have a very busy business or job, kids you’ve got to be all over the place with, and then some aches and pains on top of it. Really I’m just talking to myself when I go after my ideal client.

I can appreciate that, because I’ve had trainers in the past, and it’s hard sometimes for me to relate to them and I’m sure they aren’t relating to me either. Imagine a 25-year-old who has never been anything but fit. Even in the weight loss side of the industry, when you’re talking to someone who’s 50 pounds overweight. I had a trainer friend and we talked about that. I asked him, how do you relate to somebody who’s been overweight for 10 years when you’ve had a six-pack all your life?

I’ve spent a lot of time with the coaches I’ve had over the years talking about exactly that. It tends to be a young person’s profession, although I think that’s changing a little bit. But if you’re 53 and you’ve got lower back pain and your knees hurt, and the person sitting across from you is 22 and was out the night before and is good to go anyway, there’s some room to cover there.

Have you seen a big change now that there’s the peptides and this and that, and more of an emphasis on aging and being fit and being healthier? I don’t know if it’s always that healthy, but still.

Marketing kind of skates where the puck is going. But overall there’s been a big shift in terms of not necessarily just trying to look good, which in the ’80s and ’90s it was all that. Bodybuilding made that very popular. I started to notice a shift in the early 2000s toward actually being good, and since then it’s moved even further over. Obviously the older you get, the less it becomes about looking good naked, although we all want that. It becomes, man, I don’t want to end up like my parents. That tends to be a motivator for a lot of the people I see.

Yeah, I want to be able to get out of bed. It’s funny, something hit me a couple years ago, and that’s the reason I started trying to get my fitness back. A guy told me it wasn’t about being fit. He said, “I just wanted to be a perceived threat.” I thought, that’s interesting.

He must have teenage daughters.

He did. I have preteen daughters, and he said he felt like he was losing that. That hit hard, because I can remember my old stats. My old bench press, my old deadlift, and I’m nowhere near that. So if it’s not as much about looking good, is it more about the anti-aging, the injury prevention?

It really comes down to risk-reward. When you’re in your 20s, you can go out on a Friday night and mix all kinds of alcohol and Saturday you’re good. But it wasn’t necessarily good for you. If you did that now, you’d suffer for three or four days. What we did in our 20s is probably the same thing. It wasn’t that it was good for us, we just had a lot of capacity to recover. So it’s not that you have to train easier as you get older, it’s that you have to train in a way that minimizes risk.

How do you help people manage recovery? That’s been a challenge, I think.

There’s the two to three hours a week where we have direct control with them in person, and then there’s the other 23 hours a day that we have to account for. Nutrition is a piece of it, making sure people are getting enough sleep is a piece of it. I talk a lot about stress and different ways of managing that, because stress is real. I know just from being a business owner, I always joke that the worst thing I ever did for my fitness was open a fitness business, because your priorities shift pretty significantly. You have to give people strategies for when they’re not in the gym, and sometimes when people come in after getting their butt kicked all day, paring back and going through some basic stuff is a win, because their system can’t handle more than that. The young coach I was 20 years ago wouldn’t have appreciated that. It would have been, suck it up, you’re going to be fine.

So tell us a little bit about your book. Give us all the details.

Fitness has obviously been my thing for 30 years, but the fork in the road for me is that I almost went into the outdoor space as far as career goes. I wanted to be a guide, I wanted to be out in the woods, and if I wasn’t doing this for a living, I would have been doing that. My dad is my best friend, so the time we spend in the woods in Pennsylvania together is still gold to me. My biggest personal mission for him was to make sure he was able to get out with me, to get more seasons out of that. So the book, Hunting Beyond Limits, was really a passion project. I wasn’t trying to make any money selling the book. I wanted to merge fitness over 40 with the other thing I’m passionate about, and that’s hunting. So I wrote to the hunter the things they needed to do to get out in the field and stay out there with less aches and pains. And everybody loves a hunting story, so throughout the book there are six or seven of my favorite hunting stories, maybe 750 words each. They’re not long chapters, but I’m a sucker for that kind of stuff. Rather than it being straight fitness content, this is what you need to do, this is how you need to train, I’d break it up with, this is how I got the big nine pointer that was my biggest buck, a 140.

You need a little carrot. That’s really cool, and it’s actually the same thing I’m doing, mixing my passion with my other passion. In your book, do you outline what fitness goals people have and also help them with what they’re doing in life? It’s not just simple fitness, it’s how do you get to be able to walk with your pack, or how do you drag a buck out of a thicket.

It can be, but rule number one for me has always been to get people to move well. The other people in that outdoor fitness or hunter fitness space, I think they swing all the way to the guy who is looking to do a 12-mile trek out west and pack out his elk on the way home, and that’s great. If they’re helping people do that, cool, but I know a lot of guys who just want to be able to get through an evening sit without their back killing them. So I really went after how to help them with that, making sure they’re addressing some mobility issues, some flexibility issues. And yes, we want to be strong. I’m not the most stable person on the planet, so how do you get around on uneven ground with gear you’re not used to wearing, being strong on a single leg, things like that. Compared to some of the other people in the space, this is really bringing it back to basics, because not everybody is trying to go to Montana for two weeks.

We talked about that when we met. There’s a huge amount of hunters out there who are never going to be the western hunter or the backcountry hunter. The majority of hunters are sitting in a tree stand or sitting in a blind. A guy I used to hunt with, he was in his late 60s at the time and he’s probably pushing 80 now, rigged up his blind where he could drive his golf cart directly into it. He never got out of it. I take a different philosophy to that. In my original business, all these little things you’re doing to make your life easier were kind of the enemy. Do you see that with your guys? The tall toilet, the chair that stands them up. That’s also what’s making you weaker.

Hey, whatever keeps them out, man. But yeah, it’s the pursuit of comfort. We see that in everyday society. The accommodations are good for people once they need them. I’ll use my dad for an example, and if he listens to this he’ll laugh, but I would run cable to my dad’s blind if it meant he’d spend more time in his blind. I don’t care, I just want him out there. That said, I don’t want him to need all those things. That’s the slippery slope. If you’re relying on four wheels to get you to your blind, is there a better way of doing that where you don’t need it? I hear this a lot, I’ll limit where I actually can go because of access, and I don’t want to have to worry about being a little further out where if I am successful, now what do I do?

You grew up hunting, mainly Pennsylvania. Those are some big woods, man, and it gets cold up there. I’ve hunted Michigan and northern Wisconsin and the UP. It wasn’t that cold while I was up there, but how do you guys manage those really cold days in the blind?

Good gear. Last year my personal epiphany was the heated vest. I was so anti that kind of stuff. Ah, that’s going soft, who needs it. I’ll tell you what, I got a heated vest and I went so far as to buy an extra battery pack for it. In Pennsylvania rifle season is more in December, so I’ll use the socks in December. But I got to the point where if I even started to get a little bit chilled in archery, middle of November during the rut, I’d just turn that vest on. If you’ve ever tried to draw your bow when you’re cold, total game changer for me. So I actually carry an extra battery pack in case the first one dies.

My wife bought me one of those vests a few years ago. For Alabama, that’s like one week a year that I need to wear it, but on the days when it really is there, it makes your life. I have definitely left a stand because I’d had enough, I was just too cold.

Or for me it would be, okay, I have to move. And invariably, every time you decide you’ve got to move, you end up regretting that. If you can stay in your stand and stay comfortable, that’s a big deal.

Back to the fitness side, what do you do for yourself to stay fit? Running a business is tough, and now you’ve got all this and writing books.

Honestly, as far as structured training, three structured training sessions a week. I work on flexibility and mobility every day, I work on strength three days a week, and then I try and do some kind of aerobic capacity stuff at the end of those sessions. On the days I’m not training, I just try and move. My average workout is maybe 45, 50 minutes. What I’ve found is that when I try and do more, I hurt. And I don’t want to hurt, I’ve got stuff to do. So that’s been my sweet spot, and honestly, I do what I ask my clients to do.

How much time do you recommend on mobility and flexibility?

A guy who’s been a mentor for me for a long time, Mike Boyle, basically says you need to do flexibility and mobility one day a week for every decade you’re alive. When you’re in your 20s, you don’t think you need it. In your 30s you think, okay, maybe I need it a little bit. There isn’t a workout I do that I don’t warm up first, so flexibility and mobility is just a warmup for me.

Did we ever go over the Nolan Ryan story? In his book he talks about when he first got into the majors, he noticed two different camps of pitchers. The old guys were literally before and after training doing all the rehab, all the icing, all these different things. The young guys were just in and out, getting in, throwing the heat and leaving. And he thought, these guys are doing everything they can to get another year out of their body. So he started doing everything they did, as a guy just trying to get one more season out of it, and this was his fourth season. He became a gym rat and a PT guru from day one, and he had a massive, long career and was still throwing really hard.

Throwing smoke all the way to the end.

Exactly. I used to use that a lot when I was in practice. People would say, I’m 50 and everything fell apart. I’d tell them, it fell apart 20 years ago when you stopped doing all the things. Now you have to work so much harder to get it back.

It’s way better to maintain what you’ve got than trying to get it back when it’s gone.

You’ve got season coming up this year. Your season starts earlier than ours, I bet. When does yours start?

For whitetail, our archery season starts, I think this year it’s October 5th. In some parts of the state it’s a little bit sooner, but here it’s October 5th.

That’s only two weeks before ours. Do you hunt anything else, or just whitetail?

I grew up, before I was 12 and able to carry a gun, I was the dog. Rabbits and birds and everything for my dad. Small game in Pennsylvania is kind of diminished now, between birds of prey and fur-bearing predators and all that. I got into archery in 2008, I remember that specifically, and before that it was small game hunting up until rifle season, which was the Monday after Thanksgiving. When I got into archery, it was, oh man, this is awesome.

Do you know how many guys I’ve seen with torn rotator cuffs? The first thing they do physically all year is a month before season they start trying to pull back a 60-pound bow, and they haven’t done one thing since the season before. No training. Then they wrench that shoulder and their archery career is over. Now they’re crossbow hunters.

It’s kind of like the golfer who sits all day, doesn’t warm up and then tries to tee off on hole number one and jacks his back up. Similar stuff. So I hunt whitetails here, and in Pennsylvania fall turkey and archery bear overlap. I’ve actually gotten some fall gobblers with the bow, which is cool. And I did get two black bear, not with a bow. So mostly big game.

I have no aspiration to turkey hunt with a bow, because I’m not that great of a turkey hunter with a shotgun. We don’t have any overlap, we only have spring season, and I’ve been busted so many times by turkeys that I wouldn’t even attempt to draw a bow.

I was sitting in a tree stand for archery deer hunting and a flight of gobblers came in bow range, and it was one of those, it’s slow, let’s see if I can. Both times I was lucky enough to make the shot. They can be tough, though. I’ve had them in rifle season, when they’re not keyed in, walk within three feet of me. Oblivious. But if you blink in season, they’re gone.

Same here. I literally counted 30 one day in deer season, sitting in a tree stand, and I could have thrown rocks at them. I love hunting turkey. I’d turkey hunt all the time if I liked eating them as much as I like eating red meat.

Yeah, I know what you mean. We eat a lot of venison here. Three or four deer a year.

In your career running a business, do you see a lot of overlap between hunting and the fitness industry you work in?

Overlap in what people need, sure. Hunters are really just a subset of the population, and specifically when you drill down to that over 40 crowd, whether they’re guys like us who want to be able to get in a tree, or they want to play 18 holes, or keep up with their kids or grandkids, or like your buddy said, be a threat, it’s similar stuff. How you address it is similar, you just present it differently. The language I use with a guy who wants to hit the golf ball, to get him to have better mobility in his mid-back, is going to be different than the guy who wants to be able to see over his shoulder from the tree stand. But the motion is the same.

Is that the biggest thing you see when you’re working with your guys, the lack of mobility?

I’m going to be overly broad here, but guys tend to have severe lack of mobility. I always joke that we’re built like dump trucks. We’re very good at going straight ahead, but the minute we try and turn, it’s an issue. And women, generally speaking, there’s a strength deficit there.

Especially upper body strength. I’d agree with that. I practiced and treated a lot of patients for many years, and that’s what I would see. Guys were stiff as boards. It’s a broad generality, not every one of them, but the ladies would have strength issues or even instability type issues.

Right, and a lot of their perceived stiffness would be from instability. Their brain kind of hitting the brakes on their body. And your guy would never touch his toes. If you dropped something on the ground, you’d question whether or not you needed it anymore.

Exactly. So when you’re training people, you really get into their heads about their goals. How do you translate that to your business? Are you really goal-oriented, working toward specific things?

To be honest, it’s shifted. The metrics matter, obviously. But the place I find myself right now, where I’m most comfortable and where I feel most successful, is a blend. Yes, the numbers have to be there, but I never want to be the guy who doesn’t have a relationship with every client. That means there’s only a certain amount of scale there. I thrive on relationships. I thrive on getting to know everybody, whether they work with me personally or with a team member. I want to know something about everybody who comes in the door. Ask me 10 years ago and I would have been telling you about multiple locations and all that kind of stuff. That really isn’t what motivates me at this point.

You can focus on that, or you can focus on the individuality and the perceived value.

And if you develop the right systems and the right team, all that’s possible. But that’s kind of where things have evolved for me. I have two teenage daughters, 16 and 13, and the guy 10 years ago was numbers, numbers, numbers, and I was on 24/7, and I missed a lot.

At what point in your career did you start changing that philosophy toward more balance?

Honestly, only the last couple of years. There’s something about seeing your kid look like an adult on stage. My kids are involved in theater. My oldest daughter was a Finding Nemo freak when she was a kid. She had a little Finding Nemo costume she would wear standing in front of the TV while watching Finding Nemo. So I’m watching my daughter, who’s now a young lady up on stage looking like a young lady, and all I was seeing was that little Finding Nemo costume on a two-year-old. I was like, man, I missed a lot. I’m going to make some changes.

A lot of the guys I interview, it all starts shifting into family, into relationships, into getting your time back. I was in a room about a year ago with some very wealthy people, and I’m just a fly on the wall, and their biggest concern was their children. You’d think someone worth eight or nine figures has most things handled and doesn’t have much stress or worry. Going around the room, their biggest fear was regret, time they lost or didn’t have with their kids, or how their kids were going to turn out.

We always hear that. There’s a line in a song I’ve always liked, old enough to know better, still too young to care. You hear it and you say, yeah, yeah, I know, I know. Mentally, I’m going to be 53 and I feel like I’m 33. My wife would say maybe 13. But you start to go, wow, time’s moving. So how you spend your time starts to weigh on you more than it did when you were just all grind.

How do you see the next 10 years of your life going? What’s your big plan, what moves are you thinking about making?

I’m obviously not done. I would love to get another iteration of what I was doing with my last business going. That would give me the flexibility to spend more time pursuing the hunting interests, not necessarily for me personally, but I’d like to mentor more. I’d like to have time for that. So that’s what I’m working on right now, mapping all that out to see what it looks like.

I didn’t mention that you just exited a company, and that’s a process in itself. What factors went into making that decision? It’s a scary proposal to make a big change like that.

Honestly, the hardest part was deciding to do it. And it had a lot to do with what we were talking about. Okay, this is what it’s taken me to get here, but what does the next 10 years look like? If nothing changes, nothing changes. So what factors? Time was a big one. It was really asking myself what do I value versus what do I think I should value. I’m a first generation entrepreneur, so there’s a healthy amount of, am I really doing this? It’s easy to get pulled into modeling what you think you should be doing based on what somebody else is doing. Their version of success becomes yours.

I’m glad you said that, because I ask a lot of people this question. Define success.

Being comfortable in your own skin and having some peace of mind. And that’s literally off the top of my head.

There’s not really a wrong answer, and it should be off the top of your head. I’ve asked that so many times, and it’s as varied as what people had for lunch, probably more varied. So sometimes people say, you’ve been successful, and I say, depends on whose definition. There are a lot of people who think my life is not successful, and probably some who think it really is.

That’s the one thing I noticed, and this was a big lesson for me. The most successful I’ve been on paper didn’t necessarily jive with when I was most happy. COVID is usually something we all have in common, and COVID in the fitness industry was not fun. We couldn’t do anything in person, we were doing everything virtually, and it was a big scale down. On paper it wasn’t good. But when I think of 2020, I think of being able to go for a hike with my puppy, my chocolate lab, every day with my daughters who were little. That was a ritual, we did that every day. We were outside every day because you couldn’t really do anything else. I worked hard on the business, but there was only so much you could do that moved the needle. So COVID gives me PTSD in terms of numbers, but family time was great.

So the next 10 years you’re focused on time a little bit more, and you’ve written Hunting Beyond Limits. If you could only put one lesson out there, what would you tell the world?

This encompasses more than the book, but how you live later in life is totally controlled by how you live now. For the hunting crowd, you want to be able to be out with your grandkids in your 80s. There’s something you can do about it now. A guy a lot smarter than me wrote a long time ago, how we live is how we die. That always stuck with me.

That’s a great lesson, because most people take wellness and health in general for granted and they don’t do anything until it breaks, and then it’s too late. Not completely too late, but it’s easier to maintain if you do the work before. You don’t remember when your back started bothering you so badly that you can’t sit down, and it’s all the things you didn’t do for the 10, 15, 20 years leading up to that, when you had the biggest influence.

It’s that old you don’t know what you’ve got till it’s gone. It’s true for time, it’s true for money, it’s true for your health, it’s true for fitness. But it’s one of those lessons that’s very hard to learn ahead of the curve.

We’re a society of, if the house is not burning, don’t do anything. But it’s a slow burn. Or we’re waiting, tomorrow I’ll get to it. I read the other day that in fitness the biggest gains come from not waiting until Monday to start your routine over. People are doing great, then Wednesday night their mom makes their favorite dinner and they get off their diet, or they decide not to do their workout that day, and they think, well, this week is shot, I’ll start over.

It’s that all or nothing mentality. Something I’ve shared in the past is that your body doesn’t have a wagon. So when people say, I fell off the wagon, or I’m on the wagon, your body doesn’t know the difference. One bad meal isn’t the end of the world. You just do the next right thing. One missed workout isn’t the end of the world. You just do the next right thing. Generally speaking, people don’t do enough, but the ones who do are very focused on doing it all. That room in the middle is the sweet spot.

There are certain indulgences I give myself from time to time. I love sweets, but I can’t eat them unless it’s my birthday or something, then I can have a piece of pie. I can’t have it every day. Same with training. If I go on vacation and I don’t want to work out, great, but I’ve got to go back to it. Usually, though, we’re going on vacation next week and I told my wife to make sure she packed my gym clothes, because I get antsy sitting around. I need to get that energy out.

When I’m off from the gym, I don’t necessarily do gym stuff, but I like to do stuff outside. Sometimes I really try not to do things fitness related just because it’s what I do all the time. It’s so wired into my brain now that it just doesn’t feel right.

What do you tell your clients about that? It’s something I’m trying to instill in my kids, and you said wired. I do believe you get wired that way. I’ve noticed the people who started young, as far as the routine of fitness, seem to be the people who always do it, as opposed to the people who didn’t, and they have a harder time and they’re the ones who fall out all the time.

I’ll use my kids for an example. Both of them are big into the theater world, which for a dad who was hunting, football, baseball, basketball, has been an education for me. But my wife and I instill in them that they’ve got to do more than that. I want them to be comfortable being uncomfortable. My oldest daughter is a swimmer, a pretty good swimmer. She doesn’t love it, but I want her to continue to be comfortable being uncomfortable.

That’s a whole other topic, being comfortable being uncomfortable. That can lead into a lot of other conversations. I love that.

It’s literally the conversations I’ve had with both of them. They’ll say, well, Dad, it’s hard. I’m like, yeah, it’s hard, but you’re 14. Add 30 years. The other thing I think is unfortunate, and again I’m dating myself, is that the way I grew up, you didn’t have to plan for activity. It just happened. I left the house at 8:00 on a summer morning and didn’t come home until 9:00 at night. Kids can’t do that now. It’s a different world, so everything has to be structured, everything has to be planned.

Different world, and you can’t undo it. It’s like the COVID thing, you can’t undo the things that happened, you can’t put them back in a box. My kids are just getting to the age where they want phones. My 12-year-old has had one for a couple years, but they’ll be ostracized, completely out of the world, if you don’t get them one.

Allie, my oldest daughter, got one when she was well over 13. My youngest is 13 now, so they both have phones, and I get very old man dad about it. Get off your device. But what happens now is that’s where kids hang out. When we were kids, we went over to a friend’s house. They don’t do that anymore. They hang out in their own house, but they hang out on their device. So saying get off your device is saying don’t hang out with your friends.

We do that, but we don’t take it to that level, because my best friend lives in Wisconsin and I talk to him all the time. Before the way phones work now, we would never have talked that much. We’d have seen each other once or twice a year at a conference. So it’s good and bad, and the kids today have to learn a little bit of balance. But you can’t keep them from it, and you can’t let your kids just run and roam free now.

No. It’s amazing. Allie is driving, and it’s amazing that I’m not drinking more often. When she goes to work, she lifeguards in the summer, or if she has rehearsal, she drives there, and it’s about a 15-minute drive. You know what I’m doing the whole time?

Watching her on Life360.

When I turned 16, godspeed. You left in the morning for school, you came home after practice. Parents had no idea where you were.

I remember when I got old enough to take trips without my parents, it was, I’ll call you in a couple days. The first time I drove somewhere several hours away, it was, I’ll call you when I get there, and it was six hours. Now we’d never expect to go six hours without knowing where they are.

I don’t go 15 minutes, man.

Ken, I’ve had an absolute blast talking with you, and there’s so much our listeners can learn about staying fit and making sure they stay in the game. Before we go, when you’re out there deer hunting, is there a moment or a cool story you’d like to talk about?

This is going to sound so hokey, but that’s my solace in the world, man. The older I get, I try hard to be successful, and more often than not I get a buck. I get some does because I want the meat, but I’ve actually not taken a lot of shots that I could have taken just because I didn’t want the season to be over. I come home at the end of the day and my wife says, what’d you see? And I tell her, and she says, what were you doing? I just didn’t want the season to be over yet. My time in the tree is my connection to a higher power. Hunting is finite. You only get so many of those sits every season. So the passion for me isn’t the chasing of the game, it’s that I want another year in the tree. My favorite thing to do, even though sometimes it doesn’t make any sense at all, is to be up in the tree an hour before sunlight and watch the woods wake up. I know I’m not going to see anything until much later, but I want to watch that.

I love it. Letting the sun come through, the color change, everything. That’s the only time I can get out of my head.

You put it a lot more succinctly than I just did, but that’s 100 percent what it is. I dabbled with some song lyrics I won’t bore you with, but it’s not so much the view I have from the tree, it’s how I see everything else while I’m up there. When I get back to being that guy, I’m better. Everything I’m chasing on the ground kind of goes away.

When you can find something you’re so focused on, you’re listening, you’re smelling, you’re looking, your senses are trying to be so in tune with what’s happening around you. I remember one time I was hunting and there were two squirrels, and you could tell they were playing. There was a little limb over another tree, like a seesaw, and they’d ride over to that seesaw, come up it and ride down, come up it and ride down. You can’t think about anything else. All your problems go away, all your stresses go away. You’re just there focused on it. We need to find a way to extend your season. You come down to Alabama, we’ll get you another month or two.

There you go. Got my attention, man.

That’s why we’ve had such success finding people for this show. There are a lot of entrepreneurs out there who love hunting and fishing, and they all say very similar things about using it as that stress release, that time away to reset and refocus. So keep focusing on this group of people for your fitness work, because they need it worse than anybody. And you’ve made me think about some things while we’ve been talking. I’ve not been doing enough flexibility and mobility work, and I’ve noticed that change, so I’m going to work harder on that.

This is not a plug at all, but a sincere offer. If you go to huntingbeyondlimits.com, there’s a button to get a free copy of the digital book that talks about all that stuff. The contact form works, and my email is info@huntingbeyondlimits.com. The other thing I did for readers is there’s a resources page on the website. It’s one thing to have a book that breaks down all these exercises, but a lot of times people say, I don’t know what this is, I don’t know how to do it. So on that resources page, every exercise in the book has a video that breaks down how to do everything, and there are some sample programs there. I’m just trying to get more guys out. Obviously if somebody needs the accountability and structure of coaching, I’m available for that as well, but my primary interest is getting this in as many guys’ hands as I can.

Perfect. Well, thanks again for being on the show, we really appreciate it. Everybody remember Hunting Beyond Limits, and if you need some help, he’s got resources available for you. This is another great interview for The Hunt for Success. Thanks for being here, Ken. See y’all next time.